Wait, what?

nooowestayandgetcaught:

foreverjoyous:

justplainsomething:

You know why I really, really like cartoon version of Starfire? Because she isn’t about sex, but instead about love of all forms, most often friendship. Whenever the team meets a person of either gender, she is the first person to greet them and it’s always with a smile. That’s one of the reasons why the Nightwing Annual #2 annoys me … because if cartoon Kory met Barbara Gordon, she would probably give her a big hug and say how she loves meeting Robin’s friends and look they have the same color hair and they can be like sisters and can she braid Barbara’s hair because Raven never lets her try to braid her hair and oh, she has a utility belt just like Robin! So if we do get Kory in Young Justice down the line, that’s the Kory I want.

While I like this post (because, holy hell, another animated Kory would be hella awesome)… I gotta make the reminder that comics!Kory wasn’t just sex, and I sort of get… miffed when people make that assumption- it was partly that she was liberated, she was powerful as hell and sometimes unforgiving and loved whoever she wanted, that her culture believed in being open to her friends and family and lovers. Not to pass any negativity on what you’re saying, but the Kory I’d wanna see (but couldn’t see because this show is like PG-13, ahaha, oop) would be essentially how she was in those comic panels. The Cartoon!Kory was cute and bubbly and was still open to emotions, and valued friendship, but comics!Kory also valued her friends and was open to emotions. Blargblarg, I went off ranting.

50 Favorite Comic Characters (In No Order)

Koriand’r (DC Comics)

(Source: karazorl, via nooowestayandgetcaught)

misssynph:

novemberfox:

Gosh, how could I have been so blind? I couldn’t think why nu-52 Starfire would be so pouty, broody and angry all the time. Why it’s imperative that her giant boobs always be seen flapping around all over the place. Why each time she does anything more than pose with her ass sticking out Roy and Jason fall over themselves pointing out how awesome she is. “WHO KNEW STARFIRE WAS SUCH A BADASS? I’d never have guessed. WOW, amazing, how COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED. Look at her, she is SOOOO strong and independent. Such an empowered, CUTE, LITTLE, BIKINI-CLAD SPACE KITTEN.”

The answer is obvious. Lobdell’s Starfire is a FEMINIST ICON.

Damn.

(My apologies for hijacking your post and writing an essay OTL)

Wait, he really thinks that his Starfire is a feminist icon?

Does he even understand what makes a character or a person a fictional icon? Because I think he needs to be reminded that male gaze-y sex positivism and the propensity to kill things on her own does not a feminist icon make.

Kory can be a feminist icon (more importantly, she can be a role model for people who identify as women who want to be more confident despite the trauma in their lives), but she isn’t even close to it in Lobdell’s Outlaws.

What on earth does he see in his book that shows Kori as a feminist icon? Techinically, she’s a strong female character, but that’s it. She’s a ‘Strong Female Character’ TM. She appeals more to men than she does to anyone that would see her as an icon or a role model and she’s not displayed any sort of ~major feminist moment~ aside from what… fighting things?

Here are some actual feminist icons in comics for Lobdell and what they represent (since he really needs some help and I did just write a paper that’s related to the subject):

Wonder Woman - The first adult female superhero to be independent and not to have a man (as a significant other or leader) tell her what to do/give her name. Is an actual feminist icon outside of the comic book industry. People that don’t read comics know how important Wondy Is.

Vampirella - Created in part by Trina Robbins (a comics + feminist icon in her own right) Vampirella wore less clothing that Koriand’r usually does and still kicks more ass. She’s not a second tier character at all and she’s one of the most well-known headers of comic books.

Power Girl - Actual feminist Peej was created in the later 70s/early 80s and was an actual freaking feminist character. And not just a stereotype of what male comic book writers thought feminists were. She was independent of Superman and didn’t take shit from anyone, not even her team mates.

Storm - the first black superheroine in comics, she kicked ass and dealt with actual issues in her books. It wasn’t all catfights and sex with her at all. She was an inspiration for little black girls who read comics and didn’t have anyone to look towards that wasn’t a racist stereotype. Her stories don’t revolve around her being a VICTIM in capital letters and a survivor second and her worth isn’t tied into her sexuality and her sexuality alone.

Hell, even Tank-Girl is more of a feminist icon than Lobdell’s Starfire.

When Kory was created, she was pretty close to a feminist icon. She practiced free and open love, gave her everything to the people she cared about, and still took absolutely no shit from anyone. Not even her teammates. She was essentially a baby feminist icon. 

Scott Lobdell obviously thinks that being a fictional princess who can fly a space ship is the only requirement in being a fictional feminist icon and that he’s got to be the leading source on it.

What does he know about feminism anyway? Because his Kory definitely isn’t a feminist icon in any definable capacity unless you stretch the definition really far out.

Also: What’s with him picking on Tumblr all the damn time. It’s not only on tumblr. It’s the little kids who grew up with Starfire and now can’t stomach her presence in books. It’s the people who realize that they’re being sold sex, not a feminist icon who wants to have sex. He’s not right singling out tumblr to make fun of especially since some of the harshest critique comes from Livejournal and you know… actual comic book reviewers.

Actual feminist icons: Xena the Warrior Princess, Wonder Woman, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Storm

Get a clue, Lobdell. Even if I wrote a longer list, your Koriand’r would have a ways to go before she was EVER on it.

(via kidquip)

firefly20ffm:

antioxidantsuperhero:

luanna255:

Okay, peeps, I’m gonna rant here.

Now, let’s start off by saying that I totally agree with the second half of this: Dick and Babs DO belong together! Always! I absolutely agree with that. You guys KNOW I agree with that.

But.

But the first half.

No.

First of all: I happen to think Kory is awesome. Look at how awesome Kory is:

Try telling me that isn’t awesome. I shan’t believe you. Furthermore, try telling me that Barbara Gordon would not respect that. Because she WOULD. She totally would.

Kory is a complex character. She is warm, energetic, sweet, feisty, loving, fierce, strong, uninhibited, loyal, and, when necessary, ruthless. She’s a powerhouse. If I had to describe her in one word it would be “powerhouse”. She’s a woman of extremes. When she’s happy, she’s the most bubbly, exuberant, over-the-top happy person in the world:

But when girlfriend gets angry, she is ANGRY:

And so on. She’s a person who feels things incredibly strongly. And that makes her many things - an incredibly loyal friend, a fiercely devoted lover, a formidable opponent. It forms the core of who she is. And it is awesome.

However: Enough about that. Because you know what? You don’t have to agree with me that Kory is awesome. Frankly, I suspect that most of her haters don’t actually know that much about her, especially not NTT-era Kory. But there are always valid reasons not to like a character, so if she’s just not your cup of tea, I get that. Hate her if you must.

But at least hate her for a better reason than because she gets in the way of Dick/Babs.

Here is the thing. Hating a character just because they get in the way of your ‘ship’ is, IMO, really stupid. I like to judge characters on their own merits, or lack thereof. I love Dick/Babs, but that doesn’t mean I automatically hate their other love interests. I like Kory, for all of the reasons stated above. I like Ted Kord, because he’s funny and goofy and nerdy and sweet. I dislike Raya, because she’s a useless and annoying character. I hate Tarantula, because she’s a complete creep who made Dick miserable (whether or not she actually raped him, which IMO she totally DID). You see what I’m saying? I judge these characters based on who they are. Not on who the fact that they were competition to my OTP.

So if you want to hate Starfire, by all means, hate her. But please, come up with a better reason than “Because Dick and Babs belong together.”

Now, secondly: Hating a character because they interfere with your ship is stupid in any case. But it’s especially stupid in this case.

See, if all you know about Dick’s relationship with Kory is from Nightwing Annual #2, you’ve probably got this image stuck in your head:

Kory and Babs standing opposite each other. Kory and Babs as rivals. Kory as the annoying “interference” getting in the way of Dick and Babs and their epic romance.

The only problem? This whole scenario is a TOTAL retcon. Like, seriously, until Nightwing Annual #2, this did not exist.

Kory did not “steal” Dick from Babs. Dick and Babs were not pining for each other while he was with Kory. Dick and Kory’s relationship was, in fact, probably pretty much irrelevant in Barbara’s mind.

Here is what actually happened.

So, if you are a Dick/Babs fan, you might happen to know that back in the day, they were Robin and Batgirl together:

They liked to flirt:

Dick had a huge crush on Babs:

Barbara’s feelings for Dick could basically be summed up as “Yeah, he’s cute, but he’s way too young for me”:

They were not a couple. They were NOT in love. Dick later told Babs that she was the first person who ever made his heart beat faster, and I have no doubt that that’s true. The kid had it bad for her. But it was puppy love. There was no actual romantic relationship between Dick and Babs, at least not then. And if you look at that last scan I posted, it’s easy to see why. He was 18, she was 25. That’s a big age difference. It would have been weird for them to have been involved back then. And so, despite the fact that Dick was interested, nothing ever came of it.

And so they both went on with their lives. Babs became engaged to Jason Bard, and Dick met Kory:

And Dick fell in love with Kory. People seem to get confused on that point, so let me repeat it: FELL. IN. LOVE. Not “passed the time while secretly longing for Babs”. No. Dick did not like Kory well enough. He was not with Kory because he needed a girlfriend and she was conveniently there. He LOVED her. Deeply. More than that, he considered her the love of his life:

Yeah, that’s Dick proposing to Kory. And let me tell you something: Men who are confused about their feelings or still have feelings for other women do not say things like “You’re the woman for me and you always will be”. No. Dick was completely in love with Kory. The crush he’d had on Babs was, in all honesty, probably the furthest thing from his mind.

And how did Babs feel about this? Well… we’ll never know. Her reaction to Dick and Kory’s relationship was precisely… nothing. Probably in part because Babs wasn’t much featured in the 1980’s, and Dick was sort of off doing his own thing with the Titans, so the two didn’t interact much. But probably also because it just wasn’t that important to her. If I had to guess at what she felt, it was probably along the lines of “Oh, how nice that Dick’s found himself a girlfriend”. He was her friend, someone she’d worked with and had fun with, but he wasn’t anything more than that to her. Not yet.

There was no jealousy. There was no pining. And why should there have been? Dick was just some kid who’d had a crush on her. Her feelings for him had never gone beyond “Aw, he’s cute”, and he was definitely not someone she’d ever been seriously interested in.

So it kind of really gets on my nerves when people hate on Kory for “stealing” Dick from Babs, or “getting in the way” of Dick and Barbara’s romance. Because she didn’t steal Dick from anyone, and she wasn’t getting in the way of anything. Babs. Was. Not. Interested. Later, yes. But not at the time that Dick and Kory were together. Period. So, PLEASE, can we stop giving Kory hate for reasons which are ridiculous and don’t even make sense?!

Okay, then.

Rant done.

All of this! Completely. I hate that Kory lives or dies on her relation to Dick. She has a character outside him, guys. Outside whoever she loves or hates. She’s still a whole, individual person. 

Also, it kind of baffles me that people seem to think a character can have only one love? How many people do you know to have married their first crush? You have to learn to be in a relationship the same as any other skill. When you’re young, you experiment. You make mistakes and you learn from them. You grow as a person. Who is honestly the same at 25 as they were at 18? Young loves are bright and hot and all-consuming, terrifying and intense, and they’re great. They’re so great. But they usually can’t sustain themselves. You make mistakes and they burn out, and that’s as it should be. Those first loves leave a permanent mark on you, and hopefully, it’s one you can look back on with a smile - but it’s very rare that your one and only is also your first. 

Every relationship changes a person, makes them who they are. That’s not bad. Kory and Dick were young and loud and fun, and they helped each other grow. They were very important to each other, and it’s bullshit to devalue what they had just because they’ve moved on. Do you really think Babs and Dick WOULD belong together if he hadn’t grown into the man he is? Kory is a big part of that, whether you want to admit it or not.

She’s not the other woman, guys. They’re both important to him in different ways, and both are worthy of respect. 

A) Luanna, you are flawless. 

B) Sigh, I can’t even ship Dick/Babs or Dick/Kory as potential canon anymore. I just don’t trust most writers to actually write either one without being completely biased, being unable to write the characters properly, or degrading the ‘rival’ relationship. 

(Source: superconfessions, via princessbat)